Speaker 1: 0:01

Supporting other creators. It's one of my favorite things to do and today's guest is not brand new to you. She's actually been on the show before. But the venture that she has gone into was just so exciting for me I could not pass it up, and I'm so grateful to have her and her co-host join us for this super special interview. So I can't wait for you to hear my conversation with Zafira, who is Zafira Rajan. She's been on the podcast before and she is just a dreamboat. Like I mean, if you listen to our conversation about email copy and the different things that we have, I mean it's just so good, like go back and listen to it. Like I'm getting all like this is dumbling around because it was such a fantastic interview and I'll link to it in the show notes. But that was such a detour to what we're talking about today, because what we're talking about today is the project that Zafira and her partner, kirstie or should I say her co-host and what they created together as a creative project that they felt like they just had to get out into the world. So what they did is they created a show called Business After Baby. So this is a podcast that you can go listen to, and the conversation today is about all the behind the scenes. You'll know I love a good behind the scenes and I wanted to dive into why they created this project, why they felt the passion to have this message out into the world, and I just love all the practical things, like even to just you know, prep Kirstie, because she hadn't been on the show before. I just said my audience, like they're just a geek for everything behind the scenes. They want to know how you make the decisions that you make, whether it's your artwork or your topic, or even you know, should this be a 20 minute long episode or a five minute long episode? Like, we love all of those behind the scenes and so we just had so much fun. So, to remind you a little bit about Zafira so Zafira is a copywriter and a brand strategist who helps entrepreneurs unblock their voice, harness their creativity and write sensory stories that connect with their audience. She is an incredible copywriter and just a fantastic creative to follow on Instagram. She's super talented. And then Kirstie I was so excited to meet her because she's also a copywriter, but she's also an ex psychotherapist and a very good question, asker, who believes the best strategy for your business, what you sell, how you launch, the boundaries you set, the way you stretch and grow all of it. And she loves talking about every aspect of business, but nothing fills her cup more than working with legends like you to nail that down. So it's such a great conversation. You're going to love all of this and I can't wait for you to hear it. So here's my conversation with Zafira and Kirstie. Welcome to the Profit Podcast, where we teach you how to start, launch and market your content with confidence. I'm your host, crystal Prophet, and I'm so excited that you're here. Thanks for hanging out with me today, because if you've been trying to figure out the world of content creation, this is the show that will help be your time saving shortcut. So let's get right to it, shall we All? Right, profit Podcast listeners? We have a returning guest today, and she brought friends. This is what is so fantastic. So welcome back to the show, zafira, and welcome Kirstie. So happy to have you both here today.

Speaker 2: 3:56

I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 1: 3:59

I know this is going to happen. I always have to tell people I'm like it gets real awkward when you get more than two people together, because then it's like do you go? Do I go? Should we speak? Is this an awkward pause or is this supposed to be like? Oh, we're building the tension in the moment. So here, since you're the season pro around here and you've been on the show before Zafira, can you introduce yourself and let us know? You know what's going on, what's been going on with you since you were last on the show, and then maybe you can hand it off to Kirstie. Yeah, for sure?

Speaker 3: 4:32

Well, hi, I'm Zafira. I'm a copywriter and I'm a brand strategist, and I've always helped entrepreneurs with unlocking their voice and harnessing their creative energy, telling sensory stories that really connect with your audience. And since I was last on the show, I have a child and we'll get into that a little bit later on in the interview, but I've been easing my way back in over the last kind of eight months after maternity leave and just getting back on my feet, which has been really fun and a creative journey as well. So I'm so excited to be here and talk about one of the creative projects that included later on that I did with Kirstie.

Speaker 2: 5:17

And hi, I'm Kirstie. I am a copywriter, coach and strategist who's really concerned with the context of what makes your business a really good fit for you, so that is what my work is all about. I also have a baby, and that will become obvious as Zafira and I do talk about that creative project and why we're on here today, and by the time this episode goes live, I probably would have had my second baby as well. So it's a bit of a crazy time just trying to fit everything in, but an exciting time as well.

Speaker 1: 5:50

Oh, this is so fun. So congratulations to both of you for your wonderful blessings and all the fun things that have been going on. I think that it's such a fun journey. I mean myself personally. I have three boys and when we're recording this they just went back to school and it was just like a crazy world win of chaotic. Did you get this? Like what's that? Like what's going on? So you are in good company here and I know so many of our listeners are parents and then they are just trying to figure out how do you do this online business thing. How are we supposed to record things when they're screaming people in the other room that you can't just throw snacks at and say, hey, go do stuff. I mean you can when they get to a certain age, like, so I'm just letting y'all know of what's ahead in your future. But I want to talk about your project. So y'all teased it out a little bit, which I mean you are great copywriters, strategist, right, you knew what you were doing, but we are here today to talk about your creative project Business After Baby. And I told you before we started recording my audience like we're all just a bunch of nerds. We want to hear all the behind the scenes. So how did this project come about? What's the origin story? We want to know all the things. So, kirsty, actually I'm going to go to you first, like, can you tell us a story?

Speaker 2: 7:16

Yeah, sure, and I'll try and remember, but it's been a bit of a blur as well, so it's a fear. If I forget pieces, please fill me in. So it's a fear, and I have known each other. I think it's 2018.

Speaker 3: 7:28

Is that right? I think that's right yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:32

Which feels like an age ago now. So we met in a mastermind for copywriters and we met in person a few times at various events. Safira is based in Canada, I'm based in Australia, so it was really cool to have a chance to hang out in person those few times that we did. And then we both became pregnant with our first kids a few months apart. So my little boy, ollie, is a few months older than Safira's little girl and I think when it was, when we were both on maternity leave, we were what's happening each other, or sending DMs on Instagram with voice notes, just sharing some of those struggles and insights and like, oh my God, like WTF is happening. And you know, how are we going to fit this in with business and particularly the businesses that we both have, which really are an extension of ourselves, and how we like to spend our time and how we like to show up for people. So it's not like we had the kind of businesses where you know they could run pretty much unaffected without us being actively in them. So as we were trying to navigate that, we realized that there weren't a whole lot of resources out there for, you know, helping to answer some of those questions or even to get some visibility on what some of those challenges and decisions would be. So a few months after being back at work I can't remember who reached out to who now but we sort of tentatively started chatting about the idea of maybe building a podcast together, just a limited series, kind of like a passion project, I guess, six episodes, yeah, just talking through that whole experience, what it was like for us, and just being really open about, I guess, the you know, the mix of the personal changes and identity shifts, as well as the business side of things too. So as far as my memory serves me, I think that's how we got started.

Speaker 1: 9:31

That's incredible, that's. I love that this unfolded organically. I'm sure it was this idea of the back and forth, because I have friends like that too, where you just go back and forth and you go back and forth and when you have, I think the spirit that I feel all three of us have is like that creative energy of man. We just figured out something or we stumbled upon something that we know there's dozens, maybe hundreds, thousands of other people that are experiencing this exact same thing. And why don't we share the thing that we're figuring out in real time? Because it's not like you all had figured out motherhood and parenthood and you all were like we are the champions. Like here we are, we deserve our medals now. Like y'all are in the thick of it. And you said there's got to be some other people out there struggling with this. So, zafira, I would love to know what was the process like for y'all to decide okay, we're going to do this. Did y'all have any imposter syndrome where you like wait, this is so wild? And why did you choose a podcast over another medium to share the resources and the information that y'all had?

Speaker 3: 10:40

Thank you, oh, good question. So I think, in terms of how we first kind of dove in Christine, I had this one Google Doc that's still titled Christine's fear of motherhood entrepreneurship podcast and that's still what it's called. It was nameless, it just had a topic and we both were just brain dumping ideas in there for months, I think, up until we're like we should probably record this thing and for even for both of us on opposite sides of the world, like get on the same time and like be sure, it was toddler proofed and everything you know was a challenge. But once we got into it, like I was looking forward to it every week, we did it like back to back over the course of a month and it was so fun. But basically we just you know, keeping it real, where both moms are both running businesses, both forget things, I both have rainfall once in a while I almost forgot about this interview today, even though I've been looking forward to it for weeks had to prime it, let's gloss out of my daughter's hands like five minutes before I got here. So it's just, it's real, so that Google Doc was being filled up in, you know, in between all those moments and it was so rich and so full of ideas and to kind of add on to what Kirsty was sharing in the beginning about how he got started, I think we both have a little bit of a spicy side to us, which is when we're feeling like, oh, this can just be better or this just isn't right or this, you know, like we just have something to say about this. I think we also caught each other and our spiciness that, like various points in our journey, and Kirsty was really generous with me and saying that, like you're the person I want to do this with, but it was very much her brainchild. So, yeah, the Google Doc was the ground upon which we started building all of this on. And then I think, in terms of why we decided to do a podcast, I can't remember any particular reason other than I mean, kirsty has her own podcast that she hosts with someone else and I knew she was already seasoned at it. I think for me it was just appealing because I've always dabbled with the idea of, you know, having a podcast, but the consistency and doing it all the time felt overwhelming. So the idea of, like a limited series seemed really appealing and, you know, really neat and structured and, let's be honest, like having video and bald would have just been really challenging anyways and pointed out it worked for me. I don't know if I you've got any other idea. That was just the way you wanted to do it.

Speaker 2: 13:19

No, I think to echo all that I feel like it felt like the lightest lift and I think there was probably also, at least for me, like a selfish element there of like I'd love the chance to just have one hour long conversations, with the fear about motherhood and business, like five hours about, yeah, I think, to me and.

Speaker 1: 13:37

But you could also write it off as like oh no, this is business. Like we're just it's girl time and we're catching up, but this is no, this is 100% business. Like I'm, I'm in my office, I've got my computer, this is business. Yes, we're absolutely going to chalk it up to that, absolutely, and this is what you're talking about recording. So I have two questions that it's popped in my head that I want to go with this one. First, because you both kind of mentioned it, the limited series. So how did you settle on this? Was that kind of you know for you, zafira? Were you thinking, oh, that sounds fun, but I can't make that long term commitment? Let's do a limited series, because I know that there's a lot of people that asked me about seasons. So personally, I don't do seasons on my. I just have it's one long podcast and there is a ton of episodes. But I do know that there's people that like to hear the idea of different perspectives, and a limited series is one that I've heard people do for private podcast, but they don't do we haven't talked a lot about those for public podcast. So I'd love to kind of understand the decisions that y'all made about just having six episodes and putting it out there, and then what that look like.

Speaker 3: 14:54

Yeah, christie, I think you probably had a really clear outline at the beginning. Do you want to share a little bit more around that?

Speaker 2: 15:02

Yeah, sure, so we actually did so for, like behind the scenes, notary, we did record a test episode that never made it to air and that test episode I think was fun for us, but it lacked a lot of structure and when we listen back to it we were like that was a mess, like it was really just inviting chaos of our days and our minds of like a motherhood and business in that week. So after listening to that, we did go in and set a structure for what each episode could cover. So we did like sort of focused on one time period per episode, so obviously with something like you know, a new agency and then that immediate postpartum period and then maternity leave itself and then coming back to work, finding your feet and then making a business that fits. So I think that helped set the number of episodes. But I do think for both of us because the podcast wasn't like it is definitely aligned with the way that we both like to work and the work that we do, but it's also not a primary lead gen. Like you know, this is going to bring people directly into our money making offers. I think for both of us it was important that it was sort of like a passion project and we gave it the right container for that, because I think to be investing you know it costs money, to edit podcast, you know it hosts on a platform, all those sorts of things, to be doing that continually as well as having the time when we both have young kids, it didn't feel like the right fit. So I think it was again all these contextual factors that sort of came together that made us land on the idea of doing that limited series. But Zafira, if I miss something is this correct?

Speaker 3: 16:50

No, I think that's really exactly what I was thinking and I'll just add that I think the reason why we didn't overthink it and the way we laid it out is, you know, like she said, I think we were not attached to an outcome other than expression creatively and just being able to start conversations and to have a sense or hold space for those conversations to, you know, just happen between people in our community. You know, we kept joking with each other that as episodes getting got more, got released over time, we knew everyone who was pregnant and we knew everyone who hadn't revealed it yet. People who even had kids, who were older, were like wow, I never got a chance to have these conversations, but listening into how you two did it just really made me feel more seen. And that's really, you know, I think that was our purpose. So we didn't go into it looking at it as like a long term strategy for anything. It was purely just like, yeah, a little passion baby.

Speaker 1: 17:52

That's perfect and I love hearing that because, you know, as as I was listening to the episodes, I was like this is so fun because I, like you said, and you know your listeners gave you this feedback of we go through these journeys. In a lot of the conversations that y'all were having typically happened like in my own head I didn't say them to a friend of mine or a coworker, or you know my parents, like my mom, or even sometimes even my husband, like some of the things that you are talking about, and it was absolutely a way to feel super seen. So I think it's just a great way to point out that the genuine authenticity that you shared in there and it wasn't like y'all were sharing, like the behind the scenes, like so much of like your personal life, because I think people get very like walls up, guards up. I am not sharing any of my personal life, but y'all didn't do that, but you also did so. Can you like explain a little bit for each of you personally what that's like to do? You have a boundary around what you're comfortable sharing on podcasts, yourself or in other people's content, like is there a filter that you process or you just you overshare and then you learn and you're like I probably shouldn't have said that, like what does that look like for either one of you?

Speaker 3: 21:26

Oh, I'm courtesy. Do you have thoughts to share? Other? I thought I can go first you guys. All right, I'll go. I don't think that there is a perfect rulebook for this and we're probably for me anyways. I was definitely figuring it out as we went along and I think it's something you learn also, just as a creative in general, when you're telling stories about your daily life and you're a marketer, when you're a writer I'm writing a book right now. I'm trying to figure out, you know, who do I include, who do I not include, what I write about? What I write about and for me personally, like any boundaries I had around our podcast was just mentioning my daughter's name. That's just something my husband I were, you know choose to do the content and I generally don't post pictures of her or anything like that. So that's our personal boundary. But I think, in terms of what I was sharing inside the podcast, I think I was just mindful of like being as honest as I can and just also being as respectful as I can of whoever I was mentioning or whatever I was talking about, so that you know, should any of those folks listen in, you know, they would know, yeah, that I uphold, like certain standards or certain levels of privacy, for sure, but also knowing that it kind of defeats the purpose of the podcast if we don't get vulnerable to some extent. Right, I think her, see, and I found our balance there and also making sure we were really clear and what our content was going to be about, really helped inform that, knowing it was this blend of coming in as a seasoned entrepreneur going through this journey, finding their way back, and so I think her and I had so many parallels that were actually really freaky at some points, just like how similar they were, and also how we felt like creatively, that I think we just found that vulnerability in each other as well and help kind of draw out those little pieces. So I don't know if I really answer that, but I think there's no, there's no clear cut answer, but I just I just did my best with what I could.

Speaker 1: 23:33

Thank you, karstie. Do you have anything that you were thinking, okay, from the get go, I'm may or may not share this, or were you just you felt like an open book because you, like you know we were talking about earlier? You already have a podcast and you have this experience of possibly sharing a lot more than Zafira may have had in the past. So how was that for you?

Speaker 2: 23:54

So I do like to share and like to fear. I'm like, oh, how can I articulate this in a really like concrete way? And I don't know if I can, but I'm going to try. So I do like to share, probably a bit more of myself than some entrepreneurs, I think, because I think that there's so much humaneness in the experience of owning a business and certainly in the experience of having a baby and being a being a mom. But I'm also very careful to make sure that the details and thoughts and experiences and feelings that I'm sharing on my own, because if I can own them, you know, obviously I think that it's okay for me to give permission for those things to be out in the world, whereas I would never talk about, for example, my husband's feelings about something, because that's his choice and, you know, if he ever wanted to share that on any platform, I don't think he ever would, he's not that kind of person, but you know. So I think that would be like a breaking of trust. So thinking about that to another context, like if you're talking about working with clients, for example, like you know, which pieces of that experience are yours to share as opposed to which could be really blurring that boundary and stepping into someone else's shoes and talking on their behalf. So I don't know if that helps, but that's kind of how I draw that line.

Speaker 1: 25:10

Oh yeah, I think that absolutely helps because and it's interesting so I this is why I wanted to hear both of your perspectives, because y'all aren't the exact same and I know that I've talked to other people that have co host and this can be kind of a riff between co host, like where they decide I don't know if this is going to work out, because one person does want to be like the one that's like let me share it all. My life is an open book. I wouldn't tell you what I ate yesterday for lunch and I want to tell you like all these juicy details about my life. And then there's somebody else that's like I, no, no, no, no, no, I don't want to share anything. So they are polar opposites of the spectrum and that can be challenging if you're trying to get into that creative space where you both have this like mutual respect for each other. But I think that y'all have something that's so beautiful is you already had a relationship like you already had a working relationship, a personal relationship, and then you were like let's go do something fun together. So I think it was a lot easier. So if anybody's listening and you're actively looking for a co host or looking for someone to do a creative project like this with. Start looking in your friend group and your immediate circle, because that's more likely where you're going to find people that you trust, that you feel comfortable having those vulnerable moments, because it's just, it's so important when you go into into a creative project like this. I don't know if either one of y'all have anything else to share on that, but yeah, I do.

Speaker 2: 26:38

I would say it because I'm so. If you're a mention this, remember when we were talking about the idea, I was like if you don't want to do this, like that's fine, I'm just going to show the idea because I only want to do it with you, and I think one of the reasons for that was that the very first time I met to fear in person, I was just blown away by the thoughtfulness of your communication and how everything you shared is just so considered. Like I wish I had that skill. I feel like I'm just more like that. So having conversations with you and having the experience of always having those conversations go somewhere really deep or meaningful or end up being so resonant I was like these are the kind of say kind of conversations I think would have that same effect for other people listening. So just to add yeah, like definitely you know. Think about who you already know and think about your experience of talking about things or explaining things with them, and how would that actually perform on a platform? How would that resonate with your audience? Thinking about those kinds of questions?

Speaker 1: 27:41

That's great. Yeah, go ahead, tephir. Are you have anything else to add?

Speaker 3: 27:44

Well, that was just very sweet, chrissy. Thank you very much. I'll add, like what I love about Chrissy's personality, she's able to bring such humor and fun and lightness to things while at the same time getting really deep and getting very real and tactical, and so that's just like a really beautiful blend you don't find everywhere and she's one of the smartest people I know. So doing this with her, I think. Also, I think it's important definitely to think about the people where you could have conversations with them and you lose track of time almost, or you're not. You know you're not waiting to close out the hour or get the bill, and like every time I spent time with Chrissy, or every time we do have conversations, like I'm 100% not watching the time because we can go deep in, we can just get there like quite quickly. So I knew it would be just really fun to do so, and that's the thing I think also just being able to have fun in the process is so crucial to really getting the best out of each other and even though our you know, our boundaries are the way we navigate, things might be different. I also had conversations with her, like you said, that I actually never had with anyone else, like even in my own household, because no one else could relate on those very specific levels of things we were talking about. So finding the right partner is really just, I think, perfect blend of all of the above.

Speaker 1: 29:05

Well, and you all have teased it so well. So I mean this should go without saying. But everybody needs to go listen to their podcasts because I can vouch for their conversations being so candid and so beautiful, and you'll mention this earlier. But having that consideration for different people going through different stages like I think I'll do this so beautifully Like there was one where y'all were talking about maternity leave being so different in different places, and just those conversations that may happen in your little local region where you are like thinking about your hometown, but then, when you think about you put a podcast out to a global audience, you don't know exactly who's listening and where they're listening from, what their situation is. So I just want to point that out. I thought that y'all do such a great job at just having that conversation and I just I felt like I was just sitting there listening to you and it was. It was so good, so, so good. So y'all did a great job.

Speaker 3: 30:00

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 30:01

That's my master here. Yes, yes, but I want to get into. We're going to switch gears for a second because my listeners love the juicy details. So I want to know is there something that was challenging at the beginning? That it was such a big mountain to climb? You were like this is so hard, like I don't know how we're going to figure it out. This is the thing that's keeping us stuck. But now you look back and you're like that was not that big of a deal. It was really easy to figure out, and then like we were making it so much more dramatic than it needed to be. Is there anything that stands out in your mind?

Speaker 3: 30:42

I'll be trying to think about it. You have to be very honest, besides getting an hour of silence in my home, this honestly felt so not 100% effortless, of course, but it felt really seamless for me. Anyways, I don't know what about you, Kirsty?

Speaker 2: 31:00

Yeah, no, it's same for me. I was like, oh God, I don't have an answer for this one, because I do think. I think the health of the progress process was very organic as well. So it was quite low pressure. It always felt really smooth and enjoyable. And yeah, like you said, sephir, probably the biggest challenge for us was just logistically, like you know, on wildly different times with two toddlers and different, you know, care arrangements, you know are we actually going to be able to find a time to record this and you know how many of those times are we going to have to reschedule? But I think in the Emmy only had to reschedule one of them and that was easy?

Speaker 3: 31:34

Yeah, absolutely. And I think this is probably also crystal, because you know, you know this wasn't an elite generator, this wasn't. This didn't have like a massive launch behind it If we wanted to change the date of when it goes live, like we could have no one was going to be, you know, breathing fire up our butts or anything like that. So we were able to take a relatively chill approach. And there are definitely things like I forgot about along the way and you know we're just like oh, we'll figure it out. Oh, we need podcast art now, okay. Oh, we need this thing now, okay, all right. But like we just figured it out, we just made it happen.

Speaker 1: 32:07

Well, and it's funny too, because I feel like y'all have an unfair advantage because you're both copywriters and I would. I love the name of your podcast. So where did business after baby come from? How long? How many ideas were there? Because I know you said that it was like the baby bit, like entrepreneur business, motherhood podcast. Like, how did you finally settle on business after baby?

Speaker 2: 32:34

I think it's a good name. This is simple. It's quite fun to say Got a bit of a little iteration there.

Speaker 3: 32:40

We love a little bit.

Speaker 2: 32:42

We would do as copywriters.

Speaker 1: 32:44

Let me.

Speaker 2: 32:44

I'll see if I can bring that Google Doc up, in case they did have like a suggestion of names, but I'm pretty sure that was just. Yeah, I don't even remember.

Speaker 1: 32:53

Yeah, that's awesome, I will. I remember Zafira you posting on your Instagram. You were kind of teasing out like as it was coming. I was like, oh, we have this new project coming and you had had, I think, a few options for the artwork, and so so I feel I feel very connected to the artwork because I helped vote for it. I was like, okay, like I'm gonna need to vote for this, so what I love what y'all chose. So can you tell us about that? Like, is that something that y'all designed yourself? Did you design it? Did you hire a graphic designer, or how did that process look like?

Speaker 3: 33:29

I just said I would take a crack at it. I sent Kirstie a couple options and we settled on that kind of final image and then we were just super torn about colors and I remember Kirstie telling me that's the one thing she cannot do is pick between colors. So we decided to put it out to the internet and I should never, ever, give her a paint swatch ever. So yeah, we did and it actually I was shocked at how split the results were and how impassioned people were about like making a case for one color versus the other. I have a lot of folks in my, in my personal audience, who are like artists and designers and stuff and they're like no, it needs to be this way because of this. And other people were like well, I know both of you and like this fits better and in the end, what ended up working at well was someone gave me some really good advice to kind of like test it on, like what it would look like on a podcast page on Spotify, on Apple or whatever, and kind of see what popped more. So every designer loves to hear just make it pop, and that's how we settled on it. But again, because this was such a creative and fun project, that was also a really nice way to just put my creative hat on for a bit and just take it for a ride.

Speaker 2: 34:49

So I have to say like less likely that Zephira has those design skills, because I remember trying to do a mock up of like the audio grand post on camera. It was like a preschooler had done it. Okay, I'm just going to send this to Zephira with some like explanations about what I'm thinking would look good, and then she'd like did it in a heartbeat. So I think without that skill set, we probably would have had to hire someone.

Speaker 3: 35:12

But yeah, thank you, we'll have our strings. So, as I say, that's teamwork.

Speaker 1: 35:17

It's just pure teamwork. Is what that is? Teamwork makes the dream work, right, yeah. But I love saying this and you know I've heard you both say this a few times is like, well, this wasn't really a lead generator, well, this is just a creative project and this is this. But at the same time, there are people listening right now that that is where they're starting from to is they're like I don't really know that I want to be a podcaster. I don't know if this is for me. I tried YouTube and it didn't work. I've tried a blog before and it didn't work, and so they're in this mindset of really wrapping themselves around all of these details. So I think that it's a blessing for y'all to say we just kind of tried things out and we threw it out to our audience. We got some feedback, we listened to some, we didn't listen to others, and then you kind of just settled on what worked and you were off to the races. So I think that that's a gift that you are absolutely giving my audience and just sharing your real journey and how some things may have had a little bit heavier weight decision on them and other things. You're like I don't care, let's, let's just go. Let's just go. Let's just hang out together and have a great conversation, exactly so I have a question about the Q&A portion. So is that something that y'all had decided from the very beginning, that y'all wanted to have questions from the audience and people that you knew or is that something that happened organically as y'all started planning the content? Like, how did that work for you?

Speaker 2: 36:56

We were pretty set that we wanted to have a Q&A episode from the beginning, just because we, like you know, even though we were having the conversations that we wish we'd had access to while we were in those stages, we also didn't really know, like you know, is this going to help people in the right ways, is it going to speak to the you know really relevant concerns or questions they have? So we wanted a platform, I think, to just open up to people in case they were like this is cool guys, but like I'm really worried about this, or can you give me some insights on that? It's okay, it was sort of baked in there from the beginning.

Speaker 1: 37:34

That's awesome. That's awesome and I love that. I love the questions from the community and just having people involved in it. I think it's just so much more fun to listen to it whenever it's just like you feel like you're part of a community, and I think that the premise of your podcast from the beginning is community is the you know the through line of motherhood, parenthood, entrepreneurship, all of it blending together in this beautiful whirlwind of chaos that we all live I mean the three of us here especially like it's just, it's so incredible and I'm grateful that you put this out into the world, because now I get to chat with you and we get to talk about it and this is a fantastic like you're gonna be my case study for a public limited series podcast, which is again why I wanted to have you all on the show today. But is there any one big thing that you were like, okay, if I ever do something like this again, a creative project similar to this in your business or for another, you know, charitable cause, charitable, charitable endeavor would you do anything differently?

Speaker 2: 38:45

Like I need to insert some thinking music here, because by Safira and Alec.

Speaker 3: 38:49

Insert elevator music. I'll say what's top of mind for me. I think it was really fun going into it creatively. However, I did not expect the engagement and like the connection to it to be as strong as it was, not to say I didn't believe in it. I think, just you know, it was like casting a net out to see kind of thing right. And now you know fielding questions like will there be a season two? Yesterday Someone dropped into my DMs was like are you going to be taking guests for the next one? Or I have all these things to say. And I'm like, oh, you know ellipses. And I think if I was going to do something like this again, I maybe would have a little bit of a longer term lens, not even necessarily strategy, but to be like, okay, if this goes well, then what next? Right, and I think we just didn't really have the luxury of that at the time and we were just, we were harnessing our creative energy and channeling it into this project and we're just like, oh, we'll see what happens. But I think it's been proven to me over and over again that, like, good things happen and you are really rewarded when you just come from a place of creativity and you come from a place of passion and I have to just keep reminding myself of that. And that did come up. When you know all the episodes dropped, like oh, that's also good, I'm like I don't think I would want to do it again. But like, maybe I don't want to do it again, I want to do it in a different way and yeah, so I would maybe just think about that longer term lens and what it would really mean for me and also how it would just connect to, like, all the other purposes and things I'm doing in the world, so I could bring it full circle. You know, yeah, that's so interesting what I was going to say, because I feel like, like and totally like it did.

Speaker 2: 40:42

I think you know I also had lots of responses in my DMs and my inbox about like, oh, are you going to take guests? You know I volunteer, I'd love to come on next season. I'm like what next season? So I think it did take on a life of its own. But I also, for me personally, I think that the fact that it we didn't try and make it bigger or like think longer term or have any wild goals for it, made it free and easy in the moment. Yeah, actually interesting. I had a strategy session client yesterday who booked because of the podcast, and she's the second one. So, even though it's not, you know, as we spoke about it wasn't, you know, designed as like a pure lead gen strategy for our services or our products like it is still bringing me clients and bringing me bookings. So that's interesting for me as well. And but that's a nice surprise, I think you know it's like I'm being delighted by that because it's like, oh, this is like a bonus. But in terms of things I would do differently, I honestly can't think of something which sucks because well, actually it's great, because it means experience is wonderful, and I do it again in the heartbeat, but in terms of like being able to offer insight to people, it's not very helpful, so I'm sorry. No, this is great. This is all fantastic.

Speaker 1: 42:00

Y'all have added so much value in this conversation today. So everything that you have said is so appreciative. And I want to say too, because you know, y'all've talked about just kind of going into it from a place of we don't really know what to expect. But I think you also led with value and generosity. It's something that I talk about a lot on here is leading with value, even if you're not sure what's going to happen in return. But I feel like y'all really leaned into that and you knew that someone would benefit from those conversations and that information that you were sharing. And I think that that's a key point in the success of this show. And people asking saying, when season two come in, like can I be a guest? I think it's because you led with value and that just leaning into it, I mean I just it's karma. I'm a big believer in karma and just putting things out into the universe, and I think that y'all did this so beautifully with this project. So thank you, because I feel like it's just such a fantastic, fantastic show. Thank you, Thank you.

Speaker 3: 43:01

You're so welcome.

Speaker 1: 43:06

Well, we're going to move into our last segment, which is always interesting when we have two people, but it's rapid fire questions. So I have three rapid fire questions and Zafira's eyes just got big. She's like I don't remember what I said last time and any of these, which is great because we like to see. We like to see different answers every time we have a guest on the show. So, Zafira, I am going to go to you first and then, Kirstie, I'll come to you. But the first one is what piece of advice would you give to a brand new podcaster?

Speaker 3: 43:37

Oh my God. Okay, first piece of advice Well, I think, have the conversations you would have over and over again without getting bored of them, and I can always, you know, have new life each time. I think when you go into creating something that feels really limited to that window of time, people can feel it when it starts kind of losing that passion. So, yeah, think about the conversations you would have every single day. It's not a rapid fire answer, but sorry.

Speaker 1: 44:16

That's fantastic. It's great. What about you, Kirstie?

Speaker 2: 44:20

I would say, be open to reading the room, because I think every time you try something new whether it's a podcast or something else you're experimenting to some degree, and I think if you have that open stance to feedback and you're able to tune into how it's been received, how it's working or not working, you can then make more informed decisions as you go and shape it into something that helps you achieve the goals that you set for it.

Speaker 1: 44:41

Oh, that's so good, so good, okay. Well, kirstie, I'm going to come back to you and this one is a two-part question, and it is what is your dream podcast you would love to be on and who is your dream podcast guest? Oh my God, these are huge questions. I'm like Zephira is like oh, I get to think about this one for a second, okay.

Speaker 2: 45:06

So dream podcast I'd love to be on. There's an Australian podcast I don't know if you guys would have heard of it called the Imperfects. It is so good I can highly recommend it. It's not about business necessarily. It's more just about the experience of being human and about how we all have faults and we will have challenges and the different ways we all approach and navigate those. So definitely my kind of conversations. I'm not famous enough to be on there, but maybe one day, 30 years from now, you never know Putting it out there, putting it out to the universe, that's right and in terms of a guest, oh, that's so hard. There are so many interesting people to choose from. No-transcript, I don't know. I feel like someone that like whenever I hear him on a podcast, I'm like, oh, your brain's just fascinating, like Seth Godin. And I know he's kind of like I mean, that's an easy answer because it's Seth Godin, but still I would never say no to having a conversation with him about how his brain works in terms of marketing and business.

Speaker 1: 46:11

Oh, that's a fantastic one. That's a great one. What about you, Zafira? Who's your dream?

Speaker 3: 46:16

Oh, my God.

Speaker 1: 46:17

Your dream podcast you'd love to be on and your dream guest.

Speaker 3: 46:23

I think I would love to maybe, you know, get to a place in my life where I've built a couple of things and be on Gar Raza's podcast, like as a creator. That would be like a huge, huge goal, huge dream. And recently, in terms of a guest, I've been reading the works of Maggie Smith, who is an awesome poet and storyteller and she just she writes about actually like motherhood and navigating marriage and all these, like you know, beautiful human experiences, and if there's anyone I would have conversations with also with Kirstie, I think we would have a really good one. That's awesome, that's awesome, yeah, Okay.

Speaker 1: 47:09

So my last question, and I'm going to do this in a fun way. Maybe it's going to be chaotic, but it's fine. It's, you know, it'll be perfectly fine. So I'm going to ask you the question and then I'll both. I'm going to give you a countdown it's going to be yes or no and then you're going to answer at the same time. Okay, so you all are going to surprise, maybe surprise each other with the answer. But okay, are you, are you ready? You're so confused, You're like what's happening? But we're just going to do this and see what happens. I'm nervous.

Speaker 3: 47:34

I'm really sweaty.

Speaker 1: 47:36

It's an easy question, but it's yes or no, okay. Do you consider yourself a perfectionist? Three, two, one, yes or no?

Speaker 2: 47:47

No.

Speaker 1: 47:47

Yes, so for the audience listening, who said yes?

Speaker 3: 47:55

Zafira me.

Speaker 1: 47:57

And Kirstie said no, no, yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:02

So does anybody have any thoughts?

Speaker 1: 48:04

to share about it. I was going to say I think that's a match made in heaven.

Speaker 3: 48:08

That's also why my answer of like well, would I do different? I'd be like oh, I would like, maybe, like look in the longterm and like plan even more. Where's Kirstie? He's probably like girl, just chill, Just do it. Just do it. Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1: 48:23

Well, this is so fun. I think that this was an episode that will resonate with everyone listening. I am so appreciative of you two coming onto the show and sharing your thoughts, sharing your behind the scenes and sharing your experience, because I know it helps somebody today on their journey. Can you tell everybody where they can find a little bit more about you and the podcast? So, zafira, I'm going to go to you first.

Speaker 3: 48:47

Yeah, well, you can connect with me through my website, which is ZafiraRajancom, or on Instagram at ZafiraRajan, and you can find the podcast by typing in business after baby. Wherever you get your podcast, and I'm sure we will give you all the relevant links you can pop in the show notes. What about you?

Speaker 2: 49:08

Kirstie. Yeah, so you can find me at kirstiefantoncom or on Instagram at kirstiefanton, and always love having conversations about anything related to business or brotherhood, so if you want to reach out, don't be shy.

Speaker 1: 49:21

Well, y'all say that, but then you're going to have people are going to hear this and they're going to be like, okay, I'm going to reach out to them and say season two, like I'm coming for it, like you're going to have a whole, like we love guesting on podcast in this audience. So y'all don't spam their DMs with all of your ideas for the like, go listen to the podcast first and then maybe you can spam them with ideas. But you got to go listen to the podcast first for that privilege. So thank y'all so much for being on the show today.

Speaker 3: 49:48

Thanks.

Speaker 2: 49:49

Kristal, you're amazing.

Speaker 1: 49:50

Thanks for having us. I just want to throw this out there because I know I say it, but I don't think that you can say it enough. I'm so grateful for the conversations that I get to have on this podcast. I really am, because so much of the content that you see here that we're creating behind the scenes, a lot of it is out of a selfish intent of I see someone doing something really cool or something I'm interested in and I just want to know more about it. That is exactly where this conversation came from. Today is Zafira and I were actually going to have an interview scheduled several months ago and, you know, something came up and we just started chatting back and forth and she said you know, I just I don't know if I want to keep talking about the same things that are going on my business right now or doing this. And I just like lovingly nudged her. I was like, hey, I want to know about this podcast that you're doing. Because she was like I'm not really a podcaster. So I wanted to know, like, how did you someone who said I'm not really a podcaster you know, I'm not in love with this medium, it's not really for me how did you like how did someone, did someone convince you to someone twist your arm to create this podcast? I just want to know all the things. So I'm so grateful to Zafira and Kirstie for coming and sharing their story and just the message that they have. It's so much bigger than them, so much bigger than all of us really, and I think it was just a great conversation that women need to have about how, you know, motherhood affects your life, how it affects your entrepreneurship, your business, and I think anyone that's a parent or you know is interested in that work life balance medium. This is a great podcast to listen to and I hope that you go check it out. So, again, their show is called business after baby and I love their artwork. We talked about that briefly, but the artwork is just so much fun, it's so cute, and I want you to go check out and listen to these really honest, vulnerable conversations that are just the sweet spot for a really good podcast and I think that you'll enjoy it. So go check it out. Make sure you're following Zafira and Kirstie on Instagram and I mean, I'm just I'm so grateful for these types of collaborations and the people that I get to bring to you that can add more value to your life and your business and help you create your content with confidence. But that's all I have for you today. So make sure you are following or subscribe to the podcast wherever you are listening and, as always remember, keep it up. We all have to start somewhere.